speaker-0 (00:05)
Welcome to the Matchmaker Mentor Podcast, the show where aspiring and experienced matchmakers come to sharpen their skills, grow their businesses, and elevate the matchmaking industry. Your host is Arlene Washburn, an award-winning ethical matchmaking advocate, mentor, and industry innovator. Let's dive in.

speaker-1 (00:25)
Welcome back to the Matchmaker Mentor Podcast. I'm your host Arlene Washburn here to guide you, aspiring and experienced matchmakers and their clients or anyone in the love industry with insights that will help you grow and innovate and thrive. And before we jump in, I want to let our listeners know that today's episode will be voice only. Our guest works with high net worth individuals, high profile professionals and even celebrities.

people who often value privacy in their personal lives and relationships. In fact, if you were to see my guests at an event, it would automatically disclose the nature of the gathering. So out of respect for that discretion, today we're keeping the spotlight on his voice, his expertise, rather than video. And today we're diving into a topic that's becoming increasingly mainstream, open relationships.

and how professionals in this lifestyle are elevating the experience far beyond the apps and swipe culture. I am so thrilled to welcome George, co-founder of the group and managing member of the resort. George brings over 20 years of experience in building luxury spaces and curating events for professionals seeking open relationships. He's also a former NASDAQ CEO, which makes his journey from Wall Street to private

Members Only Communities, both fascinating and inspiring. Welcome, George.

speaker-0 (01:57)
Thank you for having me.

speaker-1 (01:59)
I am so excited for this conversation. know we talked about it months ago and then all hell broke loose and life took over. But George, I'm so excited to have you here. And I want to start with your journey. went from being a NASDAQ CEO to creating a high-end private community for open professionals. What inspired that transition?

speaker-0 (02:23)
Well, I honestly have to say I did the three things a newly divorced guy does. Some of your listeners may have heard of this list or gone down it themselves. The first thing you have to do after getting a divorce is date a stripper for a week or their intellectual equivalent. ⁓ Next on the list is the midlife crisis car and then the bachelor pad that single guys think are great but grown women would never live in.

And it was during this phase, it was during this phase that ⁓ dating some woman who was much too young for me walked into my ridiculous bachelor pad ⁓ in New York and said, my gosh, this would be a great place for a swinger party. scratching my chin like an evil villain, I thought to myself, yeah, let's look into this. And so that was the...

impetus for the first event and that was in March of 2005.

speaker-1 (03:23)
Wow. Okay. It's been a while. And I think, I think you and I met in London many, many years ago, I think at some event, but ⁓ not a swingers event. I have no problem with this lifestyle. I actually have a student right now who is a matchmaker for ethical non-monogamy. I don't have to participate in the lifestyle, but I don't judge. And I think we need to have these conversations to bring awareness because often the folks that are quote unquote, not in a lifestyle.

are cheating on one another and stuff like that. And so this is something totally different where everyone's on board. So for those who are not familiar, how would you define the lifestyle? What does it actually entail?

speaker-0 (04:08)
I truthfully want to just roll it back to the very simplest of definitions. Those who are interested in something outside of traditional heterosexual monogamy. That's it.

speaker-1 (04:22)
Okay, okay. ⁓ When you say traditional heterosexual monogamy, does that mean that when you have an open lifestyle that the individuals involved are bisexual?

speaker-0 (04:37)
Some may. think what I've worked on for all this time is to create ⁓ a safe space with a set of rules, social cues, that whatever you're into, again, it's not my job to monitor what's going on in your bedroom. But if you're looking for that space where maybe you want to have a threesome with another woman or another guy or some...

you know, raging orgy or polycule or whatever the complexity it is you're seeking. Um, there really isn't a lot of quality opportunities to do that. I'm not saying quality people, I'm saying quality spaces. There seems to be in this arena, a rush to the bottom, a rush to focus on how many people you can fit in the door for an event, a party, a cruise.

as opposed to the quality of the people, the quality of the venue, ⁓ and what's going on. And that's, I think, what's differentiated the group from local clubs and parties. And for those that are sticking their toe into this for the first time, the initial thought is, want to meet people one-on-one. I'm going to maybe go to a website, try to find a couple or try to find a single person that's going to

you know, fit my relationship dynamic, my sexual appetite. And people quickly learn that it's hard. know, if you're just, you know, one guy dating one girl, it's hard enough to find ⁓ a compatible partner. But when you start talking about three or four people meeting for the first time, no matter how much communication goes on ahead of time, it's not uncommon to walk into that first meeting and go,

my gosh, that person smokes, I forgot to ask that, I hate smokers. And so after a few extended interactions where you finally get to meet somebody at the local bar, restaurant, what have you, folks start looking for an alternative, digging deeper into the websites, digging deeper into whatever parties or events to basically create a speed dating situation.

speaker-1 (06:35)
Mmm.

Hmm

speaker-0 (07:02)
and

again the prop, please.

speaker-1 (07:04)
Go ahead, please.

speaker-0 (07:06)
As I say, this is the challenge where if you're in a small city, Kansas City, St. Louis, ⁓ Boston, where your opportunities for these type of events, clubs, parties is very limited, it's not that you can't meet good quality people anywhere. The challenge is doing it consistently. And so what happens more than not is in these smaller cities that have

smaller opportunities, that white collar professional will show up once, look around and say, wow, not my kind of place, not my kind of crowd, ⁓ and then walk out never to be seen again. So the folks that show up the following week looking for that same white collar professional are likely not to run into them. And again, I'm talking about the smaller cities in the US and Canada. And the larger markets like New York and Dallas,

Miami, you have more opportunity, but that doesn't necessarily mean you're attracting more quality individuals.

speaker-1 (08:13)
And when people hear about open relationships, they sometimes assume it's only about sex. From your perspective, what is the bigger picture?

speaker-0 (08:24)
That's a very interesting question. It's gonna sound a little off at first. Over time, as you become comfortable identifying as somebody who's in this E space, you have a different type of friendship with the people you meet. ⁓ I'll give you a great example in reverse. ⁓

Men especially are little bit more closeted about their sexuality, their health, their emotions than women typically are. But if I had a question about prostate, you know, exams, I would more quickly reach out to one of my friends, male friends in the lifestyle than one of my vanilla friends elsewhere. There is a level of trust

that comes in this space that is both necessary and a really valuable benefit. And I would say, let me put another context, if I trust you to sleep with my wife and you don't screw that up by texting her or emailing or doing some other weird nonsense when I'm not looking, I will probably trust your personal opinion if not your professional opinion.

and possibly seek it out.

speaker-1 (09:54)
And that brings me to the question of ⁓ who participates in the lifestyle. Are these primarily couples, singles, or a mix? how does your community manage that balance?

speaker-0 (10:09)
first of all, it's definitely a mix. I think that those who enjoy, participate, look for, exist in a open relationship space are a percentage of the population, no different than, you know, there's a fixed percentage of people that are homosexual. ⁓ it's also very interesting. I got to be doing this a long time to watch folks who come into the space, discover that

That is where they're happy. That's their comfortable space for their relationship dynamic. And they continue for decades. That doesn't mean that they're, you know, hooking up with people or going to clubs or going to parties, but they identify as, yeah, I'm poly, I'm open, I'm E I'm a swinger, I'm in the lifestyle, whatever, you know, adjective they want to use. That doesn't change. And again, I would say,

You know, nobody hits age 30 and says, okay, I'm not gay anymore. You know, once you figured out you are, you are. And if you're comfortable with it, you continue on. ⁓ People will put it on the shelf for a period of time. know, ⁓ wife gets pregnant. You know, kids join traveling sports. ⁓ You know, you get older, then you start getting, you know, elderly parents that have health issues.

And so I've watched over the years people phase in and out. But again, I've known folks for 20 years that are, whether they're actively participating or not, would still say, yeah, no, we're definitely in the lifestyle. But they haven't necessarily met with anybody else. It could be for a year or two.

speaker-1 (11:52)
And you've been a part of this lifestyle for many years and what have you seen shift since you got into it? How has society is perceiving it? Because I feel like this is becoming more and more of a conversation. And again, just even having a student in my course right now who dedicates her time, she's happily married and she and her husband are in the lifestyle.

and she works with couples or individuals who are interested in entering it or meeting someone, which I think is a much harder matchmaking practice than regular matchmaking.

speaker-0 (12:36)
I would think to put the first two people together is no more or less difficult than any other facet of matchmaking. ⁓ But I think adding that third person or trying to integrate more is a lot more challenging. And again, I can just imagine as a matchmaker, you've now introduced Bob to Sue and Bob and Sue are both interested in an open relationship.

And then they come back to the matchmaker and said, how do we get to meet Carol? And I could see that would be, you know, could be challenging, but for a matchmaker that's building that database, maybe not so much.

speaker-1 (13:17)
Yeah. And as someone who's married, what led you personally to explore? mean, you gave the background, but now you're in a relationship, married. Did you have to talk your wife into it? Was she into it? Like, how did

speaker-0 (13:33)
this is actually rather amusing. So I was hosting a New Year's event, 2013. All the guests were staying at the Ritz-Carlton club level in Fort Lauderdale. ⁓ New Year's was actually on a Tuesday similar to this year. And so had a whole weekend of events, yachts and ⁓ cabana parties at the Ritz.

Gloria Estevan's band one night, the Whalers on New Year's Eve, and somebody brought her as another couple said, we have a new friend, can we bring her as our guest? And they sent me her photos and her name, and I said, sure, that'd be great. Let's just say it worked out better for me than it did for them.

speaker-1 (14:19)
How long have you been married now?

speaker-0 (14:23)
We've been together since New Year's, specifically, I'll define it as New Year's Eve 2014, January 1st. So, just over 10 years.

speaker-1 (14:33)
That's amazing. I just want to break a quick break for a commercial and we'll get right back to the conversation. This episode is brought to you by the Love Pro Mastermind Academy, which I founded to train and support ethical professional matchmakers around the world. If you're an aspiring or experienced matchmaker ready to elevate your business, visit lovepromastermind.com. Back to our episode here. What do you think are the biggest

misconceptions about people in open relationships.

speaker-0 (15:07)
Seedy, trashy, walking down the hallway of the Ramada Inn with their dick hanging out.

speaker-1 (15:15)
Yeah, I agree. think that, I think because knowing people in the lifestyle that are uber wealthy, we were talking about this earlier, who run amazing businesses and have been married for many, many years and they are part of the lifestyle and these are, you know, upstanding citizens, hardworking.

employing a ton of people similar to you. I know you have like 70 employees and this just happens to be a thing, right? And I think people have a misconception that you're walking into some seedy place that's dirty and dingy and has stuff all over the place. ⁓

speaker-0 (16:00)
Well, that's I mean, the truth is that's a lot. I again, we have a process for filtering and vetting our our members that's long established. And one of the things that happens regularly is I provide an opportunity for, you know, anyone before they come to their first ⁓ private dinner to reach out and have a phone call. And the number of calls that have gone

the following. My partner and I walked into the club and she took one look at the furniture and said, I wouldn't sit on this furniture with my clothes on, it's time to leave. ⁓ My partner and I walked into the club or the party or the cruise and she took one look at the other people in the room and said, if we don't leave now, I'm never sleeping with you again. ⁓ One of the more memorable ones, ⁓ a gentleman called and said, my wife graduated the CIA. ⁓

and we walked into this party and she saw this platter of sweaty cheese and deli meat and it existed, we walk out. And then the guy complained about the price. And I was still confused and I'm like, what is the central intelligence agent? No, no, no, the culinary Institute in Poughkeepsie. And I'm like, oh, okay, makes a little more sense. So there is a huge appetite for meeting your people. And I think that

That's across the board. Again, Roman orgies really were Roman orgies. They happened a long time ago. And since then, no one has found any place new to stick anything different. All those things have been figured out. We're just the folks doing it now. ⁓ I had a writer, a travel writer at the resort yesterday. And I said, well, know, where were you recently? And she told me about an interview she just did with a

airline CEO. And I said, how is Dave?

speaker-1 (18:03)
Hahaha!

speaker-0 (18:04)
⁓ And we talked for a few minutes. ⁓ Of course, never telling him how we knew each other or why, but it's really, really much more common than I think those.

un-indoctrinated, not indoctrinated, would understand. ⁓ I'm looking at websites similar to match with 100,000 members, all trying to figure out how to find their people. I had somebody that recently provided me a list of everybody interested in the lifestyle that had ever subscribed to a Facebook group.

and it was 2.1 million.

speaker-1 (18:50)
Yeah, and I mean, this is why we're having this conversation, because I know that it comes up over and over again. And I think that, you know, people just have to be a little bit more aware of what what's out there, what's available. And that's part of what we want to bring to these.

speaker-0 (19:09)
And there's, I gotta say, there's an intellectual component to this too. know, again, monogamous relationships, you know, in 1925, how long did you live? You know, how long were you in fact married to your high school sweetheart before you died of coronary disease or tuberculosis or whatever? ⁓ So folks are living longer. They are having second and third marriages, or they're looking at their first marriage going,

Okay, how do we get this to, you know, how do we get another 20 years? And, you know, that lifestyle opportunity fosters something that we're not talking about. To do this, it requires so much conversation. And when I meet young couples, and I'm talking in their 20s, and they're, you know, asking the wise old man about, you know, how they should pursue this.

I look at the young man, say, listen, here's the deal. Your girlfriend, your fiance, your new bride is prepared to let you sleep with other women. That's the great news. But for every hour of sex you're going to go have with another woman, it's going to take a hundred hours of conversation with your partner of like true soul searching, meaningful. Someone's going to get upset. Someone's going to need a box of tissue of conversation.

And then I turn to the young woman, say, you you're about to get 100 hours of conversation out of your partner that he might otherwise not be motivated to have.

speaker-1 (20:51)
And you often talk about, you know, members that are sapiosexual because this is not just about the sex. It's also about having meaningful connections and conversations and not just, it's just not just physical, ⁓

speaker-0 (21:11)
No, and the sapiosexual is a great reference. ⁓ Again, one of my favorite catchphrases is, you know, there are folks in the lifestyle who are looking for anonymous sex in a dark room with strangers. And that's great. know, everything is on a spectrum. But at the other end of that spectrum are folks that think great sex starts between the ears, not the thighs. And they want to be able to, you know, have a conversation, hear the response, flirt a little, get to know you.

And maybe that takes an evening or a day or two days or a couple of meetings on ⁓ multiple occasions. And that's really where the group has thrived is it's those professionals, single, coupled, throupled, who want to hang out with their peers, enjoy the best a city has to offer and venues and accommodations and chefs and Grammy winners and.

James Beard winners and all the rest and where sex is a possibility, it's an element of the weekend, it's not the sole focus. And that's what the group has been about for 20 years. What shifted is we've now started ⁓ acquiring venues. So we bought our first resort and we're taking it private right now. So in the coming weeks, you'll be a member in order to even get on the property.

And even to be a member, it's not something you can pay to do. It's not something you can sign up for. There's a vetting process and it requires us meeting you in person at a dinner in one of 70 cities from Mexico city to Berlin.

speaker-1 (22:54)
Yeah, was going to say, tell me more about this vetting process for anyone who's listening who's interested in joining your group.

speaker-0 (23:02)
Well, again, you can show up at any local club on a Friday, Saturday night. There's probably a hundred of them in the United States. They're typically in the light industrial parks or in some seedy neighborhood where zoning hasn't caught up with what they're doing. And then there's the group. And so there is an invitation or application process. Our staff reviews it, does all the online research necessary and makes that initial decision.

whether we're going to invite you to an event called Just For Dinner. And again, we do that from Vancouver to Miami. mean, it's 70 cities around the world. And at every one of those dinners in every city, and there's about 90 a year, is either myself or my wife. And we're there on our own or with each other, meeting everyone. And, you know.

The phrase catfishing doesn't need to be defined any further than it has been, but that's part of it. When you're hosting an event, you want to make sure everybody is going to have a good time. That's your goal as the host. so that's issue number one. Are you going to be a good fit socially for an event? Is it a weekend at the St. Regis in Aspen? Is it?

you know, something at the Four Seasons in Sonoma or Encore in Vegas, wherever we're going, I'm looking for folks who understand the social cues and are gonna be a good fit. Who you're attracted to, I'm not gonna try to figure that out. But I know if I stock the room full of people who are well-read, well-spoken, respectful, well-traveled, I'm well on my path.

finding somebody you're going to be interested in.

speaker-1 (24:56)
Can you define for the folks that are listening and curious, know, there's so many terms out there like we know ethical non-monogamy, polyamory, open relations, like what are all these different terms that perhaps you can go through ⁓ as many as you can to help?

speaker-0 (25:15)
I honestly, I see them as generational.

speaker-1 (25:18)
Okay.

speaker-0 (25:19)
⁓ I think of boomers as swingers. ⁓ It's sort of shorthand for the whole space, but again, thinking back to that group of adults that were adults before there was an internet. And so to meet your partner, your playmate or your, know, whatever, you were looking in the back of newspapers and magazines, getting a post office box, buying a Polaroid camera, you know, email, not emailing, you know, literally mailing.

you know, letters back and forth until you finally decided to meet. ⁓ So it was hard, it was difficult. There was a lot of time and energy invested and I'm sure there was a lot of flakes and frauds in the process. For Gen X, we've had the internet for as long as we've been adults. You can find anything on the internet. You can find Nazis in Charlottesville, Virginia if you're so inclined. And so the ability to find...

other people who are interested in open relationships. mean, there's a long list of adult websites. Adult Friend Finder was an early one. SDC is a more popular one, more contemporary. But there's a list and they're, you know, different, different ones are popular in different cities and different markets around the world. And it varies, you know, from city to city and country to country. So,

Gen X has always been able to find a party, find a cruise, find a club to go to, but that didn't mean that you were looking for quality. And so for Gen X, it became the lifestyle, right? Have a cocktail, go to a club, meet somebody. What do you like? You like peanut butter in your hair? Fine, that's not my kink. You have a nice night and you kind of go your separate ways and meet the next person. Millennials. ⁓

had parents that were, at least if you're in this space, were typically a bit more open, right? If there was a neighbor running a pride flag on the front of their house, you know, when I'm sitting with millennials, the conversation is more like, yeah, no, my parents were completely cool with it. you know, the gay couple on the street, they were great. And my parents said, you know, it's not our thing, but it's fine that that's what they're into.

And so when I meet millennials, it's not about how, you know, again, boomers, it's about how quick can we get to penetration because it took so long to get there. Gen X, there were code words, full swap, soft swap, socially bi, bi curious, all these things that ultimately, even though we were meeting socially, we were queuing up for some sort of sexual interaction.

Millennials all of a sudden came along and they're like, well, we're not swingers and we're not lifestyle, but we're ethically non-monogamous, consensual, et cetera. And so when I sit at dinner with these folks, the conversation is more about we're looking for the person or persons that fit our ideal relationship dynamic. In other words, we're looking for somebody to move into our bed. We're looking for somebody to move into our spare bedroom.

We're looking for somebody that we only see once a month, once a week, once a quarter, or never again. For them, there's no question about whether they'll have sex. The question is, does the relationship fit?

speaker-1 (28:44)
Right. I would imagine that there's a lot of jealousy triggers, situations and behaviors that can spark like a lot, you know, jealousy or insecurity. How do you manage that?

speaker-0 (29:00)
One of the things that I'll, and again, I usually had meet people that are a little further in their journey. They're north of 40, they've had these conversations, they've been talking about it for a while, they're now, maybe they've been to one or two things, and they're looking for the thing that fits them. If I have one piece of advice for a couple that's already coupled, and they're gonna explore the space, is before you walk in anywhere.

anywhere, even if you're just gonna go to the like local, you know, corner bar and think it's gonna be fun to cruise for a third to join you tonight. Once you've figured out what you're looking for, what you wanna do and what the boundaries are, like, okay, if we meet somebody tonight, we can do this, but not that. Fine. When all that is sorted out and before you walk through the door of wherever you're going,

The second conversation you need to have is what are we gonna do when one of us wants to break the rules? And I'll give you a great example. In those original parties 20 years ago, was dating a woman and she went upstairs with another couple and they were, things were getting hot and heavy and at some point the gentleman turned to my girlfriend and said, okay, yeah, or the, I'm sorry, my girlfriend turned to the gentleman and said,

you know, take me. And he looks to his fiance and says, would that be okay? Now, speaking as a guy, I'm telling you right now, I think I've completely checked all the boxes when I've turned to you and asked that question, because I'm a guy and there's a blonde in front of me with her, know, knee spread.

The fiance runs downstairs, finds me and breaks burst into tears because they had had that conversation about what the boundaries were going to be on this first party on this first night. And their rule was no penetration.

So the fact that he now wanted to break the rules and did so in front of her and again asked in front of her, which he thought was being very conscientious, did not go over well. So my advice there is have those conversations. Where are the boundaries for tonight? What's acceptable? What's not acceptable? And what are we gonna do when you've had four bourbons and wanna shift the line?

speaker-1 (31:37)
Yeah, I've heard that there's a term that is often used called veto. And that is the rule that lets one partner cancel another partner's relationship or plans, which is commonly used with the E folks to avoid problems. ⁓ And that there's a lot of conversation around boundaries, a lot of disclosure, and everything has to be consensual.

speaker-0 (32:05)
Absolutely.

Absolutely. And it's very interesting to see as you go again from from boomers to Gen Z how much that emphasis changes. Again, I hear I hear feedback regularly from, you know, other gathering places where, know, this old guy came up to me and took one look at me and said, Hey, do you want to go in the back and fuck? And I looked at him and said, do you want to know my name? He said, no.

that, you know, again, kind of... ⁓

Behavior I associate more with boomers who just came up being more abrupt about well, we're here to fuck we're here for the penetration That's why we went through all this effort ⁓ Gen Z again is a completely different thing and for them ⁓ you know again the group had a camp at Burning Man for years and there are the ten principles of Burning Man and The 11th principle and it's referred to as the 11th principle is consent

speaker-1 (33:10)
Yeah. Let me ask you about this. This is the first thing that comes to mind for me because I'm a germaphobe. So I think about health, safety, privacy, of course. How do you navigate that? Safe sex, testing cadence, you know.

speaker-0 (33:28)
You

know, it's very interesting. ⁓ I know of specifically a party host that does events in New York and LA focused on Gen Z and millennials, and they have a testing requirement. You have to have an STD test, it has to be in so many weeks, and on you go. ⁓ At the same time, I mentioned my friend Dave that runs an airline. I've never seen him without a sport coat on.

At every event, he's got a sport coat on, every event. Do I know that he and his wife hook up with people? Yeah, because his wife is friends with my wife and I hear about it after the fact. But again, let people be in their comfort level and recognize that, again, there are those folks who are looking for anonymous sex in a dark room with strangers and yeah, that's important. And then there are the other end of the folks that are looking for a long-term relationship.

speaker-1 (34:29)
So I want to talk more about what you're doing, ⁓ you know, the different options that you're providing. I know you have the group and now have the resort. let's tell me, tell us about the resort. What makes it different and how does it serve as a safe and upscale alternative to people in the lifestyle? And we're not talking about the resort that was.

you know, the resort that somebody recently died and left. Where is this resort? part of the world is it in?

speaker-0 (35:03)
So we are in Jamaica and Jamaica is a small country. So I'm going to leave it right there. again, we started by acquiring an existing five star property with the single goal of elevating the property. know, again, anytime you buy something, I don't care if it's a car or a house, you're going to put your touches on it and then take it private.

And so for those listeners who are familiar with the Soho House Hotels, which is ⁓ I think the first hotel group that proved you can have a private hotel chain similar to a private country club or golf course. One of my best skills is plagiarism. I'll go on the record saying that. And so we're borrowing very heavily from Soho House's format. Now their target audience historically has been

⁓ folks in the creative arts, writers, actresses, influencers. Obviously our focus is more for those professionals in some form of open relationship. And so just that simple. Take a boutique property, put new gates on the front, and if you're not a member, you're not getting through. Because there are existing ⁓ lifestyle properties. There's one in Jamaica called Hedonism 2.

There was never a hedonism one. They thought they'd start with two because it'd be clever. And they're celebrating their 49th year. ⁓ There's a property in Mexico called Desire. It's again, been around for a long time. It's a little nicer than the one in Jamaica. And then they opened a second property called Pearl. And that's it. But again,

We sit at these client dinners, member dinners, in, week out with the feedback in every city and secondary city in North America. And we hear the same thing. Wouldn't it be great if there was a five-star lifestyle property? For the folks that are comfortable at the Montage, Auberg, Amman, St. Regis, what have you. And my sentiment is, yes, we can create a five-star

hotel situation. However, if we were building a Four Seasons, there would be a standard checklist, fit, finish, service, and all the things that we're familiar with. However, to do a lifestyle property, I think that's only 48 % of the equation. The other 52 % is who you're gonna meet at the pool. The only way to do that is to screen those people, to curate those invitations.

which is what the group has been doing for 20 years.

speaker-1 (37:57)
And so to go to the resort, have to be a member or be invited or how does that work?

speaker-0 (38:03)
⁓

Yeah, so you would have to be the guest of an existing member, which if you don't know, I'm not going to tell you who they are. Or you would have to go to our website, look at our calendar, ⁓ find a dinner coming up in a city near you. And these are typically five course dinners with wine pairings in the private dining room of whatever the best restaurants are in town.

James Beard, Nishelin, et cetera. ⁓ And we meet at those dinners the folks that have tried the local scene and not found their people, the folks that have got a tremendous investment in their career and are concerned about their privacy, so they're not gonna go to the local club in fear of running into their kids' teacher or the janitor from their, you know.

place of employment or what have you. And then we have folks that regularly fly in. ⁓ We've done dinners in different cities where no one was local. Everyone had flown in for the dinner. Again, concerned about privacy.

speaker-1 (39:14)
Yeah, is that the just for dinner dot com? What? OK.

speaker-0 (39:20)
Thank you for the plug. ⁓ Yeah, and so that, the way this started quite honestly was, I think we mentioned it earlier, I met a young woman and she said this would be a great place for a party and props to my mom. I learned what I did, learned from her how to throw a party. I hired a good caterer. I got a band from the city and I invited people I wanted to hang out with. So 20 years later, we're still, I'm still friends with some of those same folks.

And what's, again, the longevity of this is, you know, again, if you're gay, you don't turn 30 and you stop being gay. If you're in a relationship and at some point you and your partner decide we like having an open relationship, whatever that means, hot-wifing, cuckold, threesomes, foursomes, polycules, whatever your dynamic is, that's fine. And it typically just doesn't evaporate over time.

You may phase in and out as life gets in the way, but I think once you identify that this is your happy place, it's where you keep coming back to as time allows. So for us, after those first few parties, I had a friend, we're still friends, he said, hey, let's go to Deer Valley Skiing, and do you think you could do one of those parties? And so we invited our East Coast friends and we met some broken Mormons.

And we did the first party. And then a few months later, it's like, let's go to Hilton head and play golf. And do you think you could do one of those parties? And so in pretty short order, the group became this became kind of a traveling lifestyle group. so whether it was, you know, the Porsche track in Atlanta or wineries in Sonoma and Napa, you know, the yacht show in Palm beach or something in Wellington.

that's where the group started to congregate. And so it was always a different city, a different theme, a different topic. because of the, and we do three or four a year, it was never clicky. Right? That was the best part. It was always, are you into this? Great, well then we'll see you here. And again, the people who would go to Burning Man is a very different crowd.

than the folks who want to go to equestrian events at Wellington.

speaker-1 (41:46)
And what is the difference between the group and the resort? Are they different of or can they have different types of membership?

speaker-0 (41:52)
So

Yes, so in order to have access to the resort, you have to be a member of the group. Pretty straightforward. ⁓ And somebody said, well, why do you call it the resort? I said, very simply, because I don't want you to Google it. I don't want people standing outside the door looking to see who's coming in and out.

speaker-1 (42:14)
Which of course is the reason why we're doing this. We had this conversation where you wanted your anonymity because if people recognize you, they're going to recognize you when you're having an event somewhere and there are celebrities and high net worth individuals that are part of your group. And so we're respecting their privacy.

speaker-0 (42:34)
That's exactly right. If I'm recognized from this podcast and I walk into the private dining room with Dave, the airline CEO, all of a sudden people are going to go like, wait, is that Dave with George? And trust me, it's happened. It's why we've adopted this policy.

speaker-1 (42:50)
No, totally understood. this is an esoteric ⁓ topic for some people that are.

speaker-0 (42:58)
And I want to touch on something that we haven't touched on yet. There's another, and it's very strange, there's the good and bad of the following topic. ⁓ We have absolutely met folks who, you know, somebody got caught cheating. Maybe both cheated, and they decided they were gonna

try to patch it up and put things together again. And somewhere, somebody suggested, let's try the lifestyle and maybe we can, instead of being, you know, monogamous like we were supposed to be for the last 20 years, maybe we can be a little bit more flexible on that. ⁓ Another variation of that, which I think is even definitely for people who are not as emotional as I am, are the folks that are like, it's a preservation of capital issue.

speaker-1 (43:57)
It's cheaper to keep them.

speaker-0 (43:59)
Well, it's cheaper to stay together. again, I can think of some friends right now. ⁓ They're from the Northeast. They have a beautiful second house on one of the barrier islands off the South Carolina coast. And she has a boyfriend, he has a girlfriend, they've got kids, and they have overlapping orbits. And sometimes they're

four people, sometimes it's two people, sometimes it's two and two, and they have a way that works for them. And so I don't try to define your version of non-monogamy. I just try to provide a space that's both on the level you're comfortable and with the people you want to associate with.

speaker-1 (44:53)
You know, this reminds me of a story. was my husband and I were at a brewery and this couple walks in and we usually sit at the bar so we're chatting and she was like a high-level executive in the pharmaceutical industry and ⁓ He was a little bit younger and had a different type of career I forget I think he was like a he worked in the meat department or something on a supermarket and so

As we're chatting and of course people always ask each other, what do do? So I said at the time that I was, you know, I taught matchmaking and, and they were like matchmaking. And so he turns around and says to me, I'm a pineapple. And he says, I'm actually an upside down pineapple. have no idea what the he's talking about. Later on, I learned that pineapples represent the lifestyle. And if it's upside down, that means they're seeking someone. And then she finally said something that.

clued me into that it was a lifestyle thing. And then I was like, oh, okay, I think I know what they're talking about. And she's like, oh, this saved our marriage. I mean, we were, you know, it was just going to be so challenging. And of course I'm never judgmental when I'm having conversations with people at former matchmaker, if my ears haven't bled yet, they never will. I've heard it all. But I think that my non-judgmental behavior sort of made her think that

that there was any shot in hell because I mean, honestly, not to be, ⁓ you know, looks matter, right? And so these people were not attractive at all. And I was like, my God, I'm not in the lifestyle. And if I were, you guys would not be the people that I would choose. But anyway, she's like, here's my number. We have to hang out and hear you and like really push you. And I'm like, and when you were telling the story about how people who are in the lifestyle have a hard time meeting people and then the machinations that they must have to go through.

to meet other people if they don't belong to a club like this or, you because that's kind of what it was, you know, in that scenario. we both, you know, by the end of the night, was like, I'm talking to my husband, Warren, and of course he had no idea what the hell was going on. Like, Warren, you

speaker-0 (47:08)
Yeah,

you know or so or so he says but go on

speaker-1 (47:10)
Well No, he he honestly did not he had no clue and I didn't know about the symbolism with pineapples either I mean, is this something that you obviously

speaker-0 (47:22)
That's actually very recent. ⁓ In the last two or three years, really since COVID, I've seen it take off. ⁓ Strangely enough, in the 2000s into the teens, especially for the Eastern Seaboard, the phrase was, you know George? Similar to an alcoholic saying to a bartender, no thank you, I'm a friend of Bill's.

It became a code word. That was kind of flattering for a while, quite honestly, but it was time to take the focus off of me and put it really on what it should be, which is the group, you know, not my ability to plagiarize good parties.

speaker-1 (48:07)
my God, that is so funny.

speaker-0 (48:10)
⁓ Your experience is really, really common. And I think that a lot of your listeners, if they start paying attention when they go out to the local, you know, popular watering hole, whatever that is, you know, it's the Friday night after drinks at the, you know, the bar overlooking the harbor. Hopefully you have a harbor where you live. ⁓

you'll start seeing that behavior of maybe that couple moving from one person to a next. And it does, there's absolutely some telltale signs. ⁓ There's another one that comes up too, which is, and I know this is a clue for lot of couples who are concerned about ⁓ if their partner is cheating. And I'm sure as a matchmaker you've heard this before, which is,

I noticed my partner started buying new underwear. Have you ever heard that before?

speaker-1 (49:14)
⁓ no, actually, have not heard of-

speaker-0 (49:15)
Well,

that's always, that's always the, that's always like the first clue, right? If you're, if your husband, wife of, know, 10, 20 years starts buying new underwear, starts joining the gym, then something's up. Why, why are they doing that?

speaker-1 (49:29)
That's so interesting.

speaker-0 (49:31)
we'll bring in a divorce attorney in for the next call. ⁓ And what's interesting is for couples in the lifestyle, they turn that around with a full 180. Right? Now it goes from being that doughy 40 year old to you both have a gym membership and you're both updating your wardrobe. And ⁓ there's a, what's the word I'm thinking of? ⁓

where you find joy in your partner's pleasure.

speaker-1 (50:07)
Yeah, I mean, that is ⁓ interesting how that residual effect of... I also, I would equate that sometimes with ⁓ gay men tend to be that way, especially because I know a lot of gay men who have open relationships and they go to the gym and they take care of themselves and they, you know, they do all the things, wardrobe, everything to look fabulous because...

It's very common in the community, but also because these particular people that I know are in open relationships, even though they're in a committed relationship.

speaker-0 (50:44)
Well, it's funny. It's funny you mentioned gay because I, you know, the conference, ⁓ that we may have met at is the, the GDI global dating insights conference. and I was at one recently and met the founder of grinder gentlemen by the name of Joel and Joel sold out for, you know, a tremendous amount of money. had a multi-year non-compete and he traveled as a gay man with a

almost unlimited bank account would. And I met him at this conference and he was starting to launch a new site and we chatted afterwards. said, you know, in all your travels, is there a five star property dedicated to a gay audience? He said, absolutely not. He said, you know, there's some cruises, there's some parties in Ibiza, but there's not a single place. And I said, well, what if there was a gay version of the Soho house? And he handed me a stone number.

Because, and again, I have female-female couples in the group. I have a few male-male couples in the group. ⁓ Because again, the offerings are so limited. ⁓ One of my good friends, ⁓ you know, both have sons. These are two women. They both have sons. They've both been married before. At a certain point, they just decided they were sick of men. Loved each other, got married. I was at the wedding.

and that little something that they're missing that a guy can provide, they were able to find it in the group when they needed it.

speaker-1 (52:22)
This is, this has been an incredible conversation and just a lot for people to take in and learn because this is what's out there, right? And George, your community, your insights can all be found on the group, the-group.co, correct? And it's a resource hub and a blog with thoughtful content for professionals navigating the open lifestyle.

George, thank you so much for joining me today and sharing your expertise. know our audience of matchmakers and relationship professionals will gain a lot of valuable perspective on how to navigate and better serve clients in this evolving space because often, you know, I've recommended matchmakers to even add a question in their questionnaire to have this ⁓ be another option for them. ⁓ And to all the listeners,

Don't forget to subscribe to the Matchmaker podcast on Apple, Spotify, or your favorite platform. And if you know someone who should be a guest on the show or you're interested in becoming a matchmaker, check us out at the lovepromastermind.com. George, any last words you would like to share with the audience before we...

speaker-0 (53:44)
Arlene, I think for your matchmakers, that question is not optional. I think it's required. I think that for those folks, especially those that are looking for their second marriage, second long-term committed relationship, the people that I meet a lot of the time are just looking for something. You know, they've established their career. Their children are old enough that they can have daycare or nannies or travel with them, et cetera.

And so they're looking for a different.

to their next relationship, a different lightness, that ability to travel and just have fun. I met a woman yesterday who said, I've got a partner, I travel for a living, he doesn't wanna leave the couch.

And so she's, you know, there's an engagement ring and she's ready to hand it back. I think that that's a really important sentiment for folks that are at that point economically that they're employing, engaging a matchmaker is matchmakers should absolutely ask that question because they're already getting fed this content, whether it's on cable TV or social media or Tik Tok, you know, this stuff is coming at them every day. And even if they haven't done it,

they're at least aware of it and possibly thinking about it.

speaker-1 (55:07)
Yeah, no, I agree. I in a recent newsletter I Express that matchmakers should be asking these questions to not be afraid to cover topics about sex because that's part of compatibility and in some cases there are people who are maybe closeted and are Open to relationships with the same sex and it's become increasingly difficult in our world today with so many people lonely so many people not in

a happy and healthy relationship that if you are mentally prepared to be open about that, maybe there are people who are of the same sex that are a good match for you. And you've been, you know, presenting yourself as a heterosexual, but maybe you would be happy. So I just think that for matchmaking, we need to always have an open mind, not judge and allow people to just live authentically.

speaker-0 (56:05)
I you've triggered a thought a memory that I really want to share with your matchmakers about my friend Heather That's her real name, but I'm sure there's more than one and Heather is an accomplished professional. She got her start in Silicon Valley just amazingly intelligent insightful woman and I've known her for more than a decade ⁓

her challenge and a lot of the women and some of the single men that I've met is you want to have a serious relationship, but you want to have it with somebody who's open-minded and open to some sort of multi-partner situation. Again, describe that dynamic as it best suits you. And Heather explained to me in great detail that she would go on sites like OKCupid and Match and eHarmony.

and she would meet a guy and they'd go on a few dates and it was very difficult to get to that point when you found somebody you liked to come forward and say, by the way, this is my kink or this is how I like sex. So you don't wanna wreck the relationship with the guy that's otherwise been great. And then they pivot and go to the adult sites and they get to be forthcoming with what their kink is, but then they're treated

like a piece of meat with no brain and no future. And so again, for matchmakers, if they're willing to open that dialogue and saying, you know, honestly, I don't even think, honestly, I don't even think it's about lifestyle. think it's, do you think you are interested? Do you enjoy things that you think are non-traditional?

speaker-1 (57:51)
Absolutely, and if the matchmaker can't handle working with that client because they don't have the resources in terms of a database there is there are two Specialized in that area like my student ⁓ and I say students. She's an established matchmaker. She's just in part of our mastermind Yeah, then you refer them out to the appropriate matchmaker that can actually help the individual the the goal of matchmaking

is to make meaningful connections wherever they may be. It's not about the sex, it's about meaningful connections, but sex is part of the communication process between people. And so we do have those conversations and it's perfectly okay. yeah, ⁓ so I'm really thrilled that you, you know, we had this opportunity to have this conversation.

And I hope people got a lot out of it. anyone has questions, they know they could always post questions in the social media live streams that we put out there. And of course, we will be sharing all of your details in the show notes so that people can get in touch with you if anyone's interested. And until next time, keep making meaningful connections because that's where the real magic begins.

speaker-0 (59:08)
Thank you for tuning in to the Matchmaker Mentor Podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, don't forget to subscribe, leave a review and share it with fellow matchmakers and friends. For more resources, training and inspiration, visit lovepromastermind.com and follow us on social media. Remember, matchmaking isn't just a career, it's a calling. Let's keep building connections, changing lives and growing together. Until next time, stay in